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is dreaming of a beach
Tues, Oct 20 at 1 pm ET: Rosalind Wiseman, author of "Queen Bees & Wannabes: Helping Your Daughter Survive Cliques, Gossip, Boyfriends and the New Realities of Girl World" - newly revised - is here to talk about mean behavior, however and wherever it shows up in our and our daughters' lives.
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Dealing with Mean At All Ages and Stages
Oct 20, 2009 Tuesday, 1:00pm EST - Add as Favorites
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Category:FAMILY
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- magpie 17 comments
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Have you talked about clothes? My first grader has convinced my husband that she needs Ugg boots - and he doesn't understand my problem with them. I think it's a step on the road to trashy clicquey teen behavior, and I won't have them in my house. Am I overreacting?
over 2 years ago
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- rosalindwiseman 15 comments
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One of the things I'd really like to hear from you all today is about how our interactions as girls and young women have shaped who we have become. How do you think it has impacted you as mothers, wives, at work, and in your friendships?
over 2 years ago
Deborah
Amy and Julie, please do not leave out Sonny and Cher in the list of talent:)
over 2 years ago
magpie
In many ways, I think I was well served by having attended a women's college. It taught me to be me - and not to rely on others, especially men.
over 2 years ago
Deborah
Brandie, I too was raised to care deeply what perfect strangers thought of me. It did NOT serve me well and I learned that the very hard way in middle school. So, I began to not care what others would think and only what I thought and those that I loved and respected thought. I mean, all my dad would have to say would be " I'm disappointed in you" and I would be a puddle. Still. But, the guy down the street thinks I'm what's wrong with this country and my reply is " I wish it was!!!!" ;)
over 2 years ago
KidBean
Brandie, when I was growing up my mother was always concerned about what other people thought. She still is. Like you, I feel like I've mostly gotten away from it. After all, I have chosen a life quite out of the mainstream. But conflicts can still be difficult for me, too. I've been working hard the last few years on being more assertive--largely because of my desire to be a better role model for my daughter as she gets older (she's 10 now!).
over 2 years ago
Deborah
KidBean, I so love your last line..."I work for equality in my marriage, and strive to be a devoted, understanding & forgiving friend...to always remember how far each of us has to come." I love that!!!
over 2 years ago
Brandie
As far as thinking abotu what others things you of you and confrontation - I was raised to a) always worry about what the neighbors thought. I heard it a lot growing up - what would the neighbors think if they saw you now? I can remember for a time thinking that was the dumbest hing ever because I didn't care, and then I started to internalize it and became hyper-aware of what everyone around me must be thinking. Yikes! Now, I mostly back to not caring except, confrontation and me, we are not friends. It's so hard for me to do it and something has to have me super upset and bothered, and with some people, I just know, I'll never ever confront them. I'm not sure confrontation will ever be easy or come naturally. Thankfully I don't have many times when it is an issue and I can do it most of the time. But, man, I think a lot of those things have to do with how I was raised and were opinions not formed by interactions with other girls.
over 2 years ago
KidBean
Rosalind, why do you think those 20-something women are terrified to confront female bosses or co-workers?
over 2 years ago
Deborah
Becki, that would be my take away as well!!! I would also say that I care very little what people I do not know think of me. That has served me well. And I think I've passed that on to my kids...to be someone that they are proud to be...not someone, someone else wants them to be.
over 2 years ago
juliepippert
I should add that as a mom, this is my baggage, and it can cause me to be hypervigilant or over-react (at least in my head lol) for my own girls. That's why i value touchstones like Queen Bees and Wannabes.
over 2 years ago
Brandie
I was teased. A lot. A lot as a kid, and I was always told to ignore it, walk away (which for the record, I do not believe ignoring it makes it go away at all). I am highly emotional, so try as I might, tears always sprang up. I have vivid memories of literally the whole class laughing at me at recess. You never forget the kids who were nice to you and then end up teasing you right along with everyone else ya know? I don't have many friends right now - I think a lot is it's hard to make friends when your chasing after your kids all day, but I also know I probably make it hard for people to befriend because there's still a part of me that says you're a loser. You are a nerd and they will laugh at you. I think this voice has lost a lot of power over recent years - but I won't lie - it's still there. I got some counseling to deal with anxiety issues - including social anxiety and we talked about this a lot. Now, I don't think this teasing caused the anxiety, I think my normal level is high compared to most, but it didn't help with it either, kwim?
over 2 years ago
Cooper
How can that trust be built? If interactions with females always had a question mark around them, how can the 20-somethings learn to trust the women they work with?
over 2 years ago
KidBean
My knowledge of the personal histories of the women in my family and of the girls with whom I grew up has filled my heart with both pains and with inspiration. I don't think I'll ever "put it behind me". Last Friday I stood with other women at our weekly peace vigil and also to bring awareness to the recent study that found 1 in 3 women enlisted in the US military are raped. From my experiences and interactions with girls and young women, I have chosen to be an activist for women's rights, an advocate for children, and a homeschooling parent. I work for equality in my marriage, and strive to be a devoted, understanding, & forgiving friend... to always remember how far each of us has come.
over 2 years ago
rosalindwiseman
But I get a lot of questions from women in the 20's who are having problems in the workplace because they are so terrified to confront female bosses or co-workers when they have a conflict with them. I want women to be able to support each other and it seems so hard to even speak up at all.
over 2 years ago
juliepippert
I grew up in a move every year or every other year life. I got very good at making new friends, but never developed the skill of maintaining long-term -- and would often be perplexed when dealing with long-term. We landed for all four years of high school but unfortunately in a place that was Mean Girls as a rule, and Kind Girls as an exception. I recently got back in touch with my two best girlfriends in high school. We admitted we had fun together, but were still trying to deal with the meanness. So yes I've carried those friend interactions into adulthood, where I've encountered amazing women who are fabulous and also more mean girls grown up. I'm still trying to figure out how it has affected me long-term, but I think one thing is I continue to be challenged by finding and forming healthy friendships, versus alliances or unhealthy ones. It does make me value my friends greatly and respect the wonderful women I do know and like!
over 2 years ago
Becki
I think the effect on me has been to take away the importance of having a small core group of true friends, and to not care that much about a broader popularity. The lesson has served me well.
over 2 years ago
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Quiltndollmaker
Boy am I behind the times...I had to google "ugg boots" to know what everyone is talking about. lol Umm, yes.. the I-pod my daugher took to school, that she bought, got broken recently in her book bag...as for the boots, my daughter had to buy her own and she found some look alikes that she could afford. Man they are clunky aren't they!!!
over 2 years agoBrandie
Well, my daughter actually has a job - where she's pulling min. wage. So she'll be able to buy it by halloween I think. Although, we only let her have 20% of her checks. Everything else goes into savings. I wish it took her longer to save for it. Of course the job is only for 5 weeks, BUT she hasn't figured out how not to spend what we give her right away!
over 2 years agorosalindwiseman
Brandie--My children want the same things (they are 6 and 8). As of yet they've proven to be horrible at saving (I think their combined earnings as of now are at a whopping $20) so I'll let you know if we ever get to cross that bridge! ;)
over 2 years agoBrandie
Oh yes. I wish we could turn all ads off. And they are everywhere you look. Blech. My 9 year old thinks she needs an i-pod touch. I don't. I won't buy it for her, so she's saving up for it. I guess if that's how she wants to drop a couple hundred dollars, but when she gets that money, I plan on showing her all the other stuff she could get instead. I just don't think she needs the touch. And I don't believe it won't get broken quickly.
over 2 years agoEmily
That's just wrong. And as Rosalind said, the marketing is aimed at them and us. I hope maybe with these new economic times that some of these extravagances will go away!
over 2 years agorosalindwiseman
Media has gotten so much better an infiltrating our children's brains--and ours! Kids see this stuff everywhere, and then parents justify buying a $200 pair of boots they'll grow out of in a year with "they're so cute and so warm--AND have you heard? They are waterproof!
over 2 years agomagpie
We live in a materialistic town - there was a kindergarten girl with Uggs last year. I avoid taking the kid shopping, for clothes or Halloween costumes - preferring on-line for regular stuff, and homemade for Halloween.
over 2 years agomagpie
The Uggs in a toddler (!) size are $90. Good lord.
over 2 years agojuliepippert
And high-heeled shoes. Especially high-heeled sandals! For kindergarten and 1st grade. My older I knew as soon as she felt how uncomfortable they were, she'd reject them. She's very practical and reliable (so far!) like that, thank goodness. My younger? Would suffer her heart to bleeding for fashion. Will need new rules for that!
over 2 years agoBrandie
Yeah, why do people make their girls look trashy and then so many think it's cute. I just don't understand it.
over 2 years agoDeborah
I hear you on all of this...and I have boys!!! I so appreciated moms that won't allow their daughters to be marketed to like...well, you know. And the trashy Halloween costumes? What is that? Gosh, I feel for all you moms of girls!!!
over 2 years agojuliepippert
Emily, the Halloween costumes were unnecessarily vampy this year weren't' they? Even in TODDLER sizes! I'd gotten the heads-up here, thankfully, and so I told the kids the boundaries before we went looking. They've got super cute and age-appropriate costumes.
over 2 years agoBrandie
How do first graders even know about Uggs? This is what I don't understand. When I was in first grade - I didn't know the first thing about designers and labels and brands! But I see it in my kids and their friends. And I hate it. And dude, my kids will NOT walk around in clothing like Julie described. Ugh. I hate seeing girls with those sorts of messages on their shirts.
over 2 years agojuliepippert
Well i don't know anyone down here in Houston with Uggs so I guess I don't comprehend their appeal but they sound expensive and unnecessary and so on that principle I'd say yes! Mine hear me say, "That's an unnecessary expense," or "We don't need that," or "We're reducing, remember, ladies?"
over 2 years agoEmily
And don't get me started on the trashy Halloween costumes! ;)
over 2 years agomagpie
So you're with me on the Uggs? Good.
over 2 years agojuliepippert
I have a similar feeling about Juicy and Juicy-esque clothing. My kids don't need to walk around with "Diva Brat" on their chest (or rear end) but you know me, lol.
over 2 years ago