Judith Warner (author of Perfect Madness; We've Got Issues; and New York Times columnist) is thinking about writing a book on what it's like for mothers these days to transition from being the center of their kids' lives to whatever comes next as kids hit the tween and teen years and don't need us as much.
      Part of the idea is that when we were growing up, many mothers used that time to embark on new undertakings - go back to school, start a new business, try a new hobby - but we're of a different generation with a changed economic environment, and our own expectations, interests, responsibilities.  There is no road map for us or real understanding of how other mothers are thinking about this major life shift.
      Come share your thoughts, stories and questions as we talk about this important and fascinating topic with Judith.

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Category:BODY AND SOUL
  • Featured Guest
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      wildgeese

      I love this quote from Jean Luc Goddard and I think it applies to dealing with teenagers who I agree, still really need us. “...all the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave. All the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them.”

      about 1 year ago

      Christine

      Tracy that "position" thing is beautiful. It made me cry. I've never heard that...

      about 1 year ago

      Emily

      Tracey, I'm so glad to hear that. My oldest is turning 11 and I just hope the side-by-side time works for us when it comes.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      traceyclark

      tracy, that was so well put. i'm in the side by side moment with my 13 year old and i have to say, it's blissful. it's a rewarding and satisfying time for me as a mother.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      ThisFullHouse

      Good point, Emily -- Debbie, that is horrible!

      about 1 year ago

      Emily

      Debbie, lucky that you even knew about it so you could get it taken down. Less involved moms not know it's happening.

      about 1 year ago

      magpie

      Debbie, that's horrible!

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      Oh Debbie - that's awful. :(

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      Gray Matter

      Oh God Debbie, that's horrible.

      about 1 year ago

      Talk Host

      Judith Warner

      Yes, I agree entirely. That deeply affects mine, too.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      Gray Matter

      Tracy and Kristin--EXACTLY!

      about 1 year ago

      Debbie Stier

      Re "out of my league" with the social issues.....I feel that very much too. I"m dealing with a situation right now where a girl at school made a profile of my daughter and another girl on a porn site. And she used my daughter's real name and address -- but it was linked to her email address. I've gotten it taken down, but these types of issues are way beyond my experience.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      Gray Matter

      I remember when my son was young a good friend of mine said, "You think when they get older is the time to do your own thing because they don't need you so much." Sitters can help with babies, but only you can deal with a teen. THAT'S when you need to be home after school and at night. So that affects my "what's next" internal argument.

      about 1 year ago

      Kristin

      I so agree. And I am frightened by the idea of not being around for the angst of teenagedom (not to mention the trouble they could get it) while also loving the idea of going back to work.

      about 1 year ago

      Tracy Mayor

      It's the "position" analogy -- first you lead, then you parent side-by-side with your child, then you drop back and parent from the rear. My high schooler, he's already out in front of us, but he still needs a lot of encouragement and guidance from behind. My middle schooler, we're side-by-side right now. It's a great time, frankly. Tricky but enjoyable.

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      Little ones are so physically draining. Thos are the days I want to run away screaming at the top of my lungs because some days just feel like I. Can't. Do. Anymore.
      But as my 11yo gets older and she needs me emotionally, it's easier for me to stay grounded and be there to listen and to give her a hug. I think I do better with that too. I imagine as she goes through teen years, the emotional side will require me to give more. But the physical stuff kills me. Sucks me dry in so many ways that the emotional (at least thus far) has not.

      about 1 year ago

      Debbie Stier

      I AGREE TOO! I often feel with my kids (especially 13 year old daughter) that she might as well be driving with a bottle of tequila. Her confidence and independence would be *fine* if she could handle it. BELIEVE ME, I'm ready to let go! But she feels like she needs more guidance than ever. Strange paradox as they become independent.

      about 1 year ago

      Erin O

      I'm nearing 30 and still need my parents for emotional guidance ... as well as for practical things like cooking advice, tax advice (ugh), etc. I don't need them on a daily basis, necessarily, like a small child might. But I still need them.

      about 1 year ago

      Deborah

      As our kids grow....so do we. I am not the mom I was 16 years ago. We've all grown from what we needed/provided then to what we need/provide now.

      about 1 year ago

      Talk Host

      Judith Warner

      Yes, I agree the need is different as they get older. Less physically taxing -- you're not picking them up all the time -- but more psychologically so. And I've also had the experience, as my kids get older, of feeling like I'm out of my league -- when they encounter social challenges, for example, that I STILL don't know how to handle. I am struck more and more, though, by how much daughters at my older daughter's age (13 going on 14) seem to depend upon their mothers for a sense of how to be in the world (whether they recognize that or not.)

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      traceyclark

      i meant, "than I was to my babies".

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      ThisFullHouse

      Sometimes, I wish for those baby days back. Thinking back on it now, I felt more sure of myself as a mother. Weird?

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      traceyclark

      i feel like i'm better at tending to the needs of my older kids thanks I was to my babies. i'm not sure why that is. have any of you experienced that or the opposite?

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      Alphamom

      i agree. my son is younger than yours, Betsy but I am more emotionally drained by his needs than I am physically. And that's because he still needs more than ever.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      LittleJacket

      I found that I was doing just find until my older one turned 13...then I was out of my league...so they do need you--but they don't want you to appear as if they are the center of your life! Does that make sense?

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      Umm ... we recently had a medical scare with my 5 year old. They had to run (among several others) a test to see if further testing was needed to check for cancer. I called husband first, but then, I picked up the phone and bawled my eyes out to my mom. Because who else could I call. I was freaking out?
      I tend to think my kids will emotionally always need me. It just doesn't happen on a minute by minute basis, as it does when they are little.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      traceyclark

      It's just such a different kind of need. less for survival, more for guidance. don't you think?

      about 1 year ago

      Deborah

      I'm in the same thought-camp as you Gray Matter Ma.

      about 1 year ago
    • Gray Matter 28 comments
    • Can I ask a question. The premise of the chat is based on "our kids not needed us as much." At what point do you believe that happens. Here's why I ask. It's easy to believe your little children need you. They need you for day to day survival. But I would say that my son needs me more than ever (even if he doesn't like to admit it) because he's entering the years where he has more "internal" needs. Anyone know what I'm saying? Until they're out of the house I don't think they need us less.
      about 1 year ago
  • Featured Guest
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      Talk Host

      Judith Warner

      "Lifework" is great. Especially because it can mean something slightly different -- yet equally vital -- for each of us.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      juliepippert

      AMEN -- mothering never stops. I know right now as I try to figure out this new decade of mine and new life stage (especially the physical) I crave mother support and miss it desperately!

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      Gray Matter

      Here's a question--when you were ready, if you could jump back into your old career would you do it?

      about 1 year ago

      Deborah Siegel

      I like lifework too. And excellent poitn re: "so many of us had children later, so that once the children are getting older, we're further along, too ..."

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      Deborah - I like lifework.

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      Yes, and I need to look at the bright side.
      And I was lucky that I did continue college and got my degree, but now, 7 years after that degree - I want nothing to do with it ROFL!
      I'll get through it. And my husband is awesome - when this comes up he reminds me I don't need to know today. I only need to know the day I do it. And that for all he cares I can work at a fabric shop and come home and sew for the rest of my life if that's what will make me happy. Which some days doesn't sound like a bad plan =)

      about 1 year ago

      Deborah

      I suppose the questions on what I'm going to do next does make me question myself. My boys need me in different ways and now my parents do too. I think reminding myself of my "lifework" instead of the more popular "worklife" helps.

      about 1 year ago

      DomesticNotDead

      Thanks, Kayla, and I think that's a great point. It's what makes you happiest. I had no idea what I wanted or needed or even liked to do when my littlest flew the coup (at least for the better part of the day), but it came to me, and it evolved, and I think that's important to remember. You probably won't have this solid idea when your kids leave. But you may have an "idea", and that's all you need to follow.

      about 1 year ago

      Tracy Mayor

      @Brandie, on the other hand, girl, you are YOUNG and you'll have plenty of time to pursue your dreams once your kids are more independent. Some of us who waited are going to go straight from hands-on mothering to caring for parents to our own retirements. Yow.

      about 1 year ago

      Kayla S

      Brandie, my mom had that problem, too. She had me when she was 19 and never got to go to college or do anything like that. When she decided that she didn't want to stay home all the time anymore, she was afraid to go out into the real world and find a job. It took her a while to really realize her self-worth and she now has a great job! It's totally possible...you just may have to do a little self-searching. But you'll get there!

      about 1 year ago

      Kayla S

      @DomesticNotDead...that's amazing. Congrats on finding what works for you and makes you happiest.

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      I had no career before children. I didn't leave a job. I was barely 20 when my oldest was born. So I don't really have anything to go back to .... I've never had a career. Maybe that's why what comes next is so frighting to me?

      about 1 year ago

      DomesticNotDead

      I think when you choose to stay home, there's always that question of "is this all there is?" "Do I have more to give?" And I think the answer is always "yes", except that your "yes" may be to earn money, while my "yes" may be to volunteer. I think that when the kids leave for school all day, a mom realizes that cleaning the house doesn't take five days. Time has opened up to do more than "mother". For me, it's been the greatest combination of finding something special that is all my own, and still focusing my efforts on my family.

      about 1 year ago

      Tracy Mayor

      What Judith said is true -- an earlier generation of women was going from one extreme to the other. Now, even if you're a SAHM, it's not for as long, or you're planning on going back, or you had a longer career before your kids, it's more blended. So the expectation that you suddenly do an amazingly different thing when your kids get older is outdated as well. There's opportunity, for sure, but that radical re-invention doesn't seem as necessary -- or practical.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      ThisFullHouse

      OMG, Christine, exactly. I think it's a little bit of both.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      ThisFullHouse

      Never mind the fact that I'm trying to make sure that my parents, who are in ill-health, are being taken care of, too.

      about 1 year ago

      Christine

      I think there's a sense out there that being a mom isn't enough. but i also wonder if it's "out there" or "in me".

      about 1 year ago

      DomesticNotDead

      For sure, mothering never stops, and I think that's why our generation has determined it's the most important "job" to have. I think it's why so many in our generation are leaving work to stay home. And those who may not be able to afford to quit or may not want to quit altogether, are being able to continue that work from home. It's an exciting time.

      about 1 year ago

      Brandie

      I'm constnatly asked what I'll do when I stop being mom. A) I'll never stop. and B) I have NO flipping clue. Which can be scary to admit. And induces feelings of failure. Shouldn't I know what I want to do? Shouldn't I have some life goals or plans or something? But I don't know. And I don't even know where to start. So then I feel like an idiot and end up stammering up "We'll cross that bridge when we get to it" in a really false sing-songy, trying to make this sound good voice. Sigh.

      about 1 year ago

      Featured Guest

      ThisFullHouse

      Yes, Judith and to be honest, I'm freakin' tired!!! Also, my inlaws are in their 80's and still have kids moving back home. Believe it or not? I don't want that, either. Guess I'm picky like that!

      about 1 year ago

      Talk Host

      Judith Warner

      I think we've been saddled with this image, left over from our mother's generation, that in midlife you suddenly, brilliantly, reinvent yourself. Everything is possible for you -- you can go back to school, launch a new career, etc. I think that was true (or truer) for a generation of women who either weren't contributing to their household income or whose contribution was the much smaller one. But if we're co-wage earners or even the sole wager-earner today, it changes things entirely. Also -- so many of us had children later, so that once the children are getting older, we're further along, too ...

      about 1 year ago

      Debbie Stier

      You took the words right out of my mouth. Mine are 13 and 15 and are pushing me away -- but I feel like they need me more than ever or they will get hurt!

      about 1 year ago

      Kayla S

      I'm 22 and my mom will never stop being a mom. Heck...HER mom will never stop being a mom. That's the way I expect it and society should, too. Everyone needs their mom, no matter how old they are.

      about 1 year ago

      Emily

      It does feel like there are these big expectations looming, doesn't it?!

      about 1 year ago

      Deborah

      I SO know what you mean.

      about 1 year ago
    • ThisFullHouse 25 comments
    • Backstory: My kids are 17, 15, 12 and 9. It's not so much the "letting go," but the "being there," physically, mentally, emotionally, that troubles me. It's difficult to think that society sort of expects me to stop being a mom. And do something new and brilliant. Like, I don't know, solve world hunger, or something. You know what I mean?
      about 1 year ago