What’s Next? Judith Warner on Shifting Gears When Our Kids Don’t Need Us as Much

We were honored to welcome back to TheMotherhood Judith Warner, the New York Times columnist and author of Perfect Madness and We’ve Got Issues, to talk with her about a book idea she is working on.  The topic was what we as women think about that time ahead when our kids don’t need us as much and when we begin to re-take ownership of our lives … and then what?

 

TheMotherhood members were very passionate on the topic, and Judith got the conversation going by posing some thoughtful questions. Read some of the comments below, but to summarize, here were the key conclusions:

 

·      As your kids get older, the physical demands on mothers become less, but the psychological ones may actually rise.

 

·      Moms feel conflicted about going back to work – or even other commitments because of that feeling that they want to be around to support their kids.

 

·      Some of these problems are societal: there are too few supports for working moms and too few flexible options.

 

·      Finding your way through this question may require adjusting your expectations.

 

Read on to see in what directions this exciting conversation wandered—and see if you agree with Warner and our other mom bloggers who brought such interesting viewpoints to the table:

 

 

INTERNAL OR EXTERNAL—WHAT NEEDS TO CHANGE?

 

Judith Warner: I am struck by how many women enter periods of painful self-questioning right at the point when they reach midlife and face the crossroads of what to do – how to live, how to be – in the second halves of their lives. The easing-up of the most physically intensive years of motherhood brings more time and energy for self – and that can be, to put it mildly, a mixed blessing.

 

I am eager to hear of how others experience this life “passage.” Do you sail through it smoothly, or is it rocky and uncertain? How do you get to the other side? What fuels/sustains/guides you along the way? Do you find yourself questioning/wanting to change the circumstances of your life – or do you – as I tend to do – focus instead on changing yourself? And what role does external reality play in all this: the economy, the scope of your possible life choices, your relationships, your support systems, your health and financial resources? We tend to avoid those externals as topics of conversation, but I tend to think they play a very major role in how we conceive of, and navigate, this phase of our lives.

 

Domesticnotdead:  I’m actually right there, Judith. My son went off to kindergarten this year, and while I knew it was coming, and thought I was absolutely ready, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I felt like I had lost my job. So, I decided I wasn’t alone. Obviously everyone’s kids go off to school, and they figure out what to do with their lives. I did a little poking around, and realized that women were excited to use the brains they still had intact after cleaning up poop and spit up. I started a blog around this entire subject, praising and featuring women who have chosen to chase the dreams and kids all the while keeping their post-modern housewife status.

 

For sure, mothering never stops, and I think that’s why our generation has determined it’s the most important “job” to have. I think it’s why so many in our generation are leaving work to stay home. And those who may not be able to afford to quit or may not want to quit altogether, are being able to continue that work from home. It’s an exciting time.

 

Deborah: I suppose the question on what I’m going to do next does make me question myself. My boys need me in different ways and now my parents do too. I think reminding myself of my “lifework” instead of the more popular “worklife” helps.

 

Judith Warner: “Lifework” is great. Especially because it can mean something slightly different — yet equally vital — for each of us.

 

Emily:  I think it’s so interesting to look at the distinction between changing one’s circumstances and changing oneself. I think I look to doing both. One side of me wants to learn to be more zen and yoga-ified, and the other wants to move to a farm and try growing heirloom tomatoes in quantity

 

THE TRICK TO FINDING SOMETHING FLEXIBLE

 

Kristin: How do smart, capable women, experienced in the business world, figure out a way to get back into the workforce in a flexible way so that they can be around for their pre-teens/teenager? This is such a frustration for me and so many other women. The business world doesn’t seem to offer any flexible situations (except for the rare job-sharing or telecommuting arrangement).

 

Judith: See — I think this lack of flexibility, lack of social supports for parenthood, is always the backdrop against which we have these sorts of conversations. We have very circumscribed choices.

 

Julie Pippert: So true — when is that flexibility going to be more prevalent? Especially since studies keep showing how it works better and leads to more productivity!!

 

Kristin: So many of us share this frustration and feel that our “work” options are limited to volunteering, PTA, etc. Are there any companies/organizations that have done a good job harnessing the power of these smart, capable women, many of whom are available from 9-3 every day – but don’t want to commute or become road warriors?

 

OPPORTUNITY LIES IN TECHNOLOGY…BUT WE’RE STILL CONFUSED

 

Domesticnotdead: I think what I’ve learned from my self-diagnosed elementary school empty-nest syndrome is that this is the greatest time in history to follow your dreams. Technology has made so many avenues readily available. It’s a matter of convincing yourself that your creativity matters and can make a difference. It’s amazing what actually taking that step will do.

 

Little Jacket: Judith–when I hear you wondering if you were building a good life, with your accomplishments, it makes me think that there is a condition at work here that prevents us from realizing that we are who we are now…? I produce Gretchen Rubin’s videos, who you mentioned in your recent article–she has this saying Be Gretchen. meaning be actually who you are. Thoughts?

 

Judith: … the ability to “Be Gretchen” or “Be Judy” or whatever means that you have to really be able to identify who you are and like who you are. That’s not a given for a lot of people, either part of the equation.

 

Wildgeese:  I find that it is easy to lose who I am because motherhood has drained my confidence. I care so much about raising happy, healthy good citizens of the world that I lose myself. I find the work feedback loop so much more confidence building and so much easier to Be Me.

 

WE NEED TO “CREATE A KINGDOM INSIDE OURSELVES”

 

Judith Warner: This is a quote from F. Scott Fitzgerald’s “The Crack-Up” which, of course, has nothing to do with motherhood, …it fitted so perfectly how I was feeling after the years of trying to do absolutely everything. I wonder if others will relate as well:
“I began to realize that for two years of my life I had been drawing on resources that I did not possess, that I had been mortgaging myself physically and spiritually up to the hilt.”

 

Tracy Mayor: I do feel all of this searching has something to do with our larger society — people are really not feeling fulfilled by our culture, work, economy, shared values. It’s like we’re each trying to create a little kingdom inside of ourselves because the world around us isn’t doing it. I kind of dream of a time — which probably never existed — where a majority of people all felt at least somewhat on the same page. But of course there was a huge price to pay for that homogeneity (paging Betty Draper).

 

Judith Warner: That is so true!!

 

A FULL-TIME JOB CHANGES EVERYTHING–ALMOST

 

Judith: Is anyone in a traditional, full-time job? I would be eager to hear her perspective, because, in my experience so far, women in that position experience this transition a bit differently (much less dramatically, in fact).

 

Magpie: Me! Traditional FT job. (Well, maybe not that traditional, it’s an arts non-profit.) My husband is the stay-at-home parent, because he’s on LT disabililty. I feel like I’m missing lots of bits of my daughter’s growing up, because he’s the one putting her on the bus, and taking her to activities, and hosting playdates.

 

Judith: I guess I was thinking of this: I tend to experience these issues much as you all do. But, last summer, I got together with a group of women in Washington, DC who really felt differently about things. They just didn’t ask themselves these kinds of questions. It was like: they knew where they were from and they knew where they were going, and they didn’t let themselves be sidetracked by these kinds of concerns. And I felt sort of silly. I’d assumed the kind of angst I was experiencing was very widespread (which obviously it is). But what accounts for that kind of difference? How you grew up? What your expectations were of life on your way up?

 

Some were women who’d grown up in very modest backgrounds, who’d been very clear, always, on where they wanted to go in life and what it would take to get there and were very aware of how good they had it now and that life could be very different. One was a woman whose mother had really felt she’d sacrificed her own life to her family (and husband in particular before getting divorced) and I think she’d always had an agreement with herself that she wouldn’t end up in that position. I think that everyone’s individual life story plays a big role here.

 

Little Jacket: Yes, and I suppose that the angst of all of this is a luxury that people with certain economic conditions can only experience?

 

DO KIDS EVER STOP NEEDING YOU?

 

Gray Matter Matters: The premise of the chat is based on “our kids not needing us as much.” At what point do you believe that happens. Here’s why I ask. It’s easy to believe your little children need you. They need you for day to day survival. But I would say that my son needs me more than ever (even if he doesn’t like to admit it) because he’s entering the years where he has more “internal” needs. Anyone know what I’m saying? Until they’re out of the house I don’t think they need us less.

 

Judith Warner: Yes, I agree the need is different as they get older. Less physically taxing — you’re not picking them up all the time — but more psychologically so. And I’ve also had the experience, as my kids get older, of feeling like I’m out of my league — when they encounter social challenges, for example, that I STILL don’t know how to handle. I am struck more and more, though, by how much daughters at my older daughter’s age (13 going on 14) seem to depend upon their mothers for a sense of how to be in the world (whether they recognize that or not.)

 

Deborah: As our kids grow….so do we. I am not the mom I was 16 years ago. We’ve all grown from what we needed/provided then to what we need/provide now.

 

Tracy Mayor: It’s the “position” analogy — first you lead, then you parent side-by-side with your child, then you drop back and parent from the rear. My high schooler, he’s already out in front of us, but he still needs a lot of encouragement and guidance from behind. My middle schooler, we’re side-by-side right now. It’s a great time, frankly. Tricky but enjoyable.

 

Kristin: I so agree. And I am frightened by the idea of not being around for the angst of teenagedom (not to mention the trouble they could get it) while also loving the idea of going back to work.

 

Wildgeese: I love this quote from Jean Luc Goddard and I think it applies to dealing with teenagers who I agree, still really need us. “…all the dragons in our lives are perhaps princesses expecting us to be handsome and brave. All the terrifying things are perhaps nothing but helpless things waiting for us to help them.”

 

Co-hosting the Talk were these fabulous bloggers:

 

Betsy Cadel, Gray Matter Matters and Cool Mom Tech
Tracey Clark, Founder, ShutterSisters
Maria Giacchino, My Little Jacket
Isabel Kallman, AlphaMom
Julie Pippert, Using My Words
Liz Thompson, This Full House